It’s like debating whether Malaysia should join the EU

Currently, the rakyat have no say in the choice of candidates. Barisan Nasional and Pakatan Raktyat decide whom to field in the elections and the rakyat are told to choose one or the other. So you close your eyes as to who the candidates are. You just look at the party symbol and vote for whoever it may be even if you don’t like the candidate.

THE CORRIDORS OF POWER

Raja Petra Kamarudin

Pak Yeh has responded to my reply to him, which you can read below (I have not edited anything, not even the typos). I would now like to reply to some of the points he raised, which are as follows:

On that there should only be a pair, two sides to a coin, good and bad, black and white, left and right, ying and yang, and so on (as ordained by God and mentioned in the Quran, as you said), I would have to disagree with you -- especially on your argument that any third choice or third alternative is a hypocrite or munafiq (which you also say is what God has ordained).

Life is not just about black and white. There are also various shades of grey (a blend of black and white) plus yellow, blue, green, red, etc. Life is also not just about left and right. There is also the centre. And you certainly can’t simplify things by lumping people into two groups and that if you do not subscribe to any one of the two groups then you are a hypocrite.

And just because I do not agree with you absolutely, 100%, you accuse me of selling out or of being bought. Pakatan Rakyat supporters should stop this “either you are with me or you are against me” attitude (and that if you are not with me then you have been bought).

This is what President Bush used to say. Either you are pro-America or you are an enemy of America -- and therefore if you are not pro-America then the US has every right to attack your country.

I did not support America’s and its Allies’ invasion of Iraq. But this does not mean I am pro-Saddam Hussein either.

I was opposed to what Saddam did to his people. Saddam’s regime was brutal and the Iraqis were subjected to atrocities that make the Umno regime look like Angels of God by comparison. And the nine-year Iran-Iraq war saw one million Muslims die at the hands of fellow Muslims. How can I be pro-Saddam with that track record?

But then I also do not agree that the US and its Allies invade Iraq. This too brought a lot of suffering to the Iraqis. Can two wrongs make a right? Can we justify removing a brutal dictator just to continue the suffering of Iraqis where millions more die in the post-Saddam era?

So you see, in the Saddam issue, I do not take either side -- not Saddam’s side nor the US side. Both Saddam and the Iraq invasion were bad for Iraqis. So, since I do not support Saddam or the US invasion of Iraq to remove Saddam, does that mean I am a hypocrite, as you say?

But that is how President Bush sees it -- either you support the US or else you are an enemy of the US. And that is also your argument -- either you support Saddam or you support the US and if you do not support both sides then you are a hypocrite.

Was there a third solution available to solve the Iraq issue? Could the solutions be more than just two -- “either let Saddam continue to rule or let the US invade Iraq”?

What happened to the rest of the Muslim countries? Why did they just sit and do nothing? They knew what was happening in Iraq. They knew about the death toll of the nine-year Iran-Iraq war. They knew about the great loss of life and property due to the Kuwait invasion. Yet, the other Muslim countries did nothing.

Could it be then that Saddam could not have done what he did and the US also could not have done what it did if the Muslim countries had done something? So could it be that the Muslim countries are to be blamed for allowing Saddam to do what he did and then for allowing the US to invade Iraq?

In fact, all those countries that bought Iraq’s oil (and therefore allowed Saddam to continue ruling the country) and those Muslim countries that allowed the US to use their soil to launch the attack on Iraq are the culprits. If the western countries (or China) had boycotted Iraq’s oil (thereby putting pressure on Saddam) and if the Muslim countries had refused to allow their countries to be the base for attacking Iraq then millions of lives would have been saved.

So you see, I am talking about a third alternative here. I am talking about solving the problem of Iraq by not creating a bigger problem to solve a problem. If we limit everything to just two options without looking at a third option then that is what we get.

Okay, maybe the Malaysian political scenario is not quite the Saddam or Iraqi invasion type of situation. But I just want to demonstrate that your argument of there being only two sides to everything and that if you refuse to support both sides then you are a hypocrite because there is no third alternative (as ordained by God) is flawed.

Back in the old days, whoever did not support American Capitalism was considered a Communist (remember the McCarthy era?). And in the Communist countries, whoever did not support Communism was a Capitalist Pig. In those days it was just a choice of two and if you did not support one side then you are regarded as the enemy because then it must be because you support the other side.

But then both Communism and Capitalism are bad for the people or rakyat. Under Communism you become slaves of the state and under Capitalism you become economic slaves. Under both systems the rakyat become slaves.

So can’t we reject both and look at a third alternative, which is more ‘people friendly’? Why must we be the enemy or a hypocrite just because we reject both on grounds that both are not beneficial to the rakyat?

The issue is not whether we should or should not look at the third alternative. The issue is how better is this third alternative. Is it an improvement to the two main choices or is it worse? Would a third alternative work better than the two that we already have? This is how we should look at things.

The third alternative may not necessarily be better. Maybe the two choices we already have are the best. But how would we know unless we explore and consider?

It is when we close our minds to alternatives that we do not progress. In the old days we either walked or rode an animal (horse, elephant, camel, etc.) Those were the two alternatives. Then along came the motorcar and we now have a third mode of travelling. There are times when walking is better though (healthier) and there are times when it is fun to ride a horse. But does the third choice of the motorcar make us hypocrites?

How do we equate this third choice to the political situation? Actually, I don’t know how this third choice or ‘third force’ came about. Somehow the government-controlled mainstream media kept referring to the MCLM as the third force even though we did not say we are the third force. And then the opposition supporters started jumping onto the bandwagon and started whacking the daylights out of us.

Anyway, since the third force issue will not go away I suppose we shall have to just make the best of the situation. And that is why we launched the rakyat as the third force campaign. Since everyone insists that the third force is for real we might as well make the rakyat that third force.

And what do we mean when we say the rakyat is the third force? Simple, we go back to the rakyat and ask them whom they would like as their wakil rakyat. They are, after all, called wakil rakyat, so we might as well ask the rakyat whom they would like as their wakil.

Currently, the rakyat have no say in the choice of candidates. Barisan Nasional and Pakatan Raktyat decide whom to field in the elections and the rakyat are told to choose one or the other. So you close your eyes as to who the candidates are. You just look at the party symbol and vote for whoever it may be even if you don’t like the candidate.

Is it so wrong to tell the two coalitions that the rakyat would like some say in the choice of candidates? I said ‘some say’. I did not say ‘total say’. Out of almost 800 candidates to be fielded in the general election, MCLM wants to propose, at the most, 20 or 30. So far only four names have been announced. In the end it could be 10, or 15; it may not even be 30.

Note I said that MCLM is proposing SOME names. Even if it is 20 or 30 names it is still only 3% or so of the total number of candidates. And MCLM is proposing to offer these candidates to Pakatan Rakyat.

So where did this talk of third force and three-corner fights come from? That, I would like to know. And why are we arguing about something that is not even on the agenda of MCLM? We are arguing about something that is not even on the cards. It is like arguing about whether Malaysia should join the European Union and we start getting all excited when the government never even thought of that idea and even if it did we are not in Europe and would not qualify to be a member of the EU.

Now do you understand why I am very brutal in my comments and responses? I am being made to defend MCLM against trumped up charges and fabricated allegations. And it is taking up so much of my time, which could have been put to better use than debating non-starter issues.

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MY EARLIER REPLY TO HIS POSTING:

http://www.malaysia-today.net/mtcolumns/37655-okay-lets-debate

PAK YEH’S RESPONSE TO MY REPLY AS FOLLOWS:

Sorry I cannot comment on your blog. I was banned due to my anti-Christian comments.

However this is my reply to your reply on the "Is the 3rd Force Relevant?”

I also have it on my blog.

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Pak Yehs response.

I thank you for your response to debate.

RPK said :

You argue that when Malaysia is the same as Britain only then can we consider a third force. I say that we need a third force to ensure that Malaysian politics reaches the maturity level of that in Britain. It is not something we do only after we reach that level. It is something we do to make sure we reach that level.

Pak Yehs reply :

In the Quran there is a verse that says that Allah has created all things in pairs.

In Politics there is only two factions, the antagonist and the protagonist, the good versus the bad, the left vesus the right. The third party is often refered to by Allah as the hipocrits who are a mixture of both. Marxist would define it further by calling it the class struggle between the bogoise/haves/rich/kings and the prolitariat/have nots/poor/slaves.

Since Social Scientist and Allah Himself says there is ony two groups, in which group do you belong. A third group does not exist. Ypu have to join either one to play an antagonst or a protagonist, a ying or a yang in this world abides by the Tao philosophy.

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RPK said :

So, as you can see, your points are all empty rhetoric and void of substance. Anyone can say what you are saying if you do not need to back what you say with hard facts. You offered no facts. You offered no solutions. You have no plan. You are someone who sits and says he wishes he could become rich by winning a lottery but have never bought a lottery in his entire life. This is daydreaming or angan-angan.

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Pak Yehs reply:

The debate/ball game is just about to start, yet you have claimed yourself as winner.???

Cool it man.!!! Allow me to debate your points first.!!!

If you really desperate to win, better I dont need to play the game/debate with you hah???.

And dear respected RPK,.. No need to personal attack me by saying my grammar is bad and that I am a dreamer/angan2. There is nothing wrong with dreaming/angan2. Those who dare dream big dreams are the successful ones.History will tell you this.

Dont tell me you do not dream too.???

Maybe we should not care who wins, as long as the truth comes out the winner.!!!

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RPK said :

Your arguments are almost the same as what Datuk Zaid Ibrahim said in September last year. You, just like Datuk Zaid, argue that we must first make sure that Malaysia sees a two-party system before we talk about a third force.

I have asked this question many times before: how do we make sure that this happens? You, just like many people, talk about what we must see happen. However, just like many people, you have not offered solutions on how we can make sure that this happens.

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Pak Yehs reply:

Do you not see that the many parties are really divided into two parties(Pakatan Rakyat and Barisan National) now???..

The divide is by natural selection ("birds of a feather flock together"), "good versus evil","left ekonomics versus right economics", antagonist versus protagonist.???

It is Allahs will to divide people into the good versus the bad.!!!

You, Mr RPK have to choose which side you are with. You have to decide which party is good and which party is bad, and join or support it.!!!

By you, Mr RPK attacking the good side.like your article saying PKR is worst than UMNO is like someone who does not know who his enemy is. I put in a comment saying that you were talking through your bum/asshole.

You cannot beat up your friends like that.IIt just shows that you could have been paid by UMNO/BN.!!!

The Quran says that if you are not with the good, you are witj the bad, and if you are not with either one than you are the mushrik/hipocrits.!!!

My debate here is enough to burn your ass, but it is through your own foolishness.

You have a confloct of interest between the forces of good (Pakatan Rakyat) and the forces of bad (barisan National).

So Mr RPK are you with the antagonist or are you with the protagonist.??? Are you with the "Forces of Good" or are you with the "Forces of Evil".???

Your actions of late confused the rakyat and the forces of good.

I do hope you have not been bought by Sanusi and Mamak Kutty to be a spoiler and fallen to the dark side.???.

As for more than three or more cornered fights in elections, it is still a fight between the goog and the bad. There are only two side of a coin/of life, the good side and the bad side.!!!

Birds of a feather flock together.!!!

Please be cool (peace) brother.!!!

Its only a debate. No hard feelong.!

I respect you very much brother. I even wrote a pantun.. "Pantun:RPK 4 PM" on my blog. But it is a brothers right to debate and hopefully be guided to the straight path.!!!

Salam Alaikum.