If no evidence for 15th century Hang Tuah, Hang Li Po then what about 9th century Arabia?

This is from FMT.

‘Hang Li Po, Hang Tuah did not exist’

January 16, 2012

• Historian Khoo Kay Kim says Ming records no mention princess or  warrior
• points out  early Malaysian history based on stories
• According to "stories" Hang Li Po fifth wife of Sultan Mansur Shah 1456-1477
• same period as Hang Tuah, Hang Jebat, Hang Kasturi, Hang Lekir, Hang Lekiu. 
• Prof Khoo (said) Hang Li Po and warriors never existed
• Ming dynasty 16th century does not have records on them
• These are very well preserved records
• two Western historians and Wang Gung Wu on Ming records 
• did not mention the characters either

• History must be based on empirical records. 
• Historians must only accept written records,” he said
• empirical records available here were at best “skanky”. 
• There is no evidence in the Malaysian records,” he said. 
•  “These are stories. Early Malaysian history is based on stories.”
• “We have had many stories.

• Only recently historians taken trouble to research early Malaysian history 
• A lot of stories accepted in the past cannot be proven,” he added.
• rumours Malacca kingdom founded in 1292 
• records prove it was formed in 15th century

My comments :  There are a few very important things to note here.  

Firstly yes there are  "written" versions of the stories of Hang Tuah, Hang Li Po etc. 

But these written down versions appeared much, much later AFTER the time period in which they were supposed to have lived.  Certainly Hang Tuah and Hang Li Po never left behind any written auto / biographies of themselves either.

There are no written records from the time period of Hang Tuah and Hang Li Po itself. 

This is what Prof Khoo Kay Kim is saying.  

When people began writing stories about Hang Tuah and Hang Li Po, it was very long after the events were supposed to have happened. 

Prof Khoo Kay Kim says  that even as late as the 16th century there are no written references to a Hang Li Po or a Hang Tuah in the Ming Dynasty records. Hence the stories of Hang Tuah and Hang Li Poh cannot be "historically" proven.  

Or there must be archaeological proof.  There must be a building, a grave, some inscriptions on stone etc to prove that such a person existed or that event happened.  

This is called the modern historical method or the scientific method. You need to show some proof.    Without such historical evidence it just becomes grandfather stories.

You also need to show common sense. 

For  example even if you have "historical records" which say 'my hero flew to the sun and back on a magic bird' or 'my hero flew on his pet flying unicorn to the moon and back' then you know for certain those 'historical records' are completely false. 

Now what about 9th and 10th century Arabia? 

It was during the 9th and 10th centuries in Arabia that people began writing Hang Tuah type stories. 

Meaning they have ABSOLUTELY 100% NO EVIDENCE for their stories. 

It was 100% complete hearsay.  Grandfather stories. 

It went like this :  I heard from Ibnu who heard from Abdul who heard from Hassan who heard from Hussein who heard from Malik who heard from Hakim who heard from Sufyan who heard from etc etc 

This is 100% hearsay evidence with absolutely no written records or archaeological records to back them up.

It will certainly fail Prof Khoo Kay Kim's historical method. 

Some of you will say 'There were written records going back to the 7th century AD'.

Err..let me correct you. There were NONE. ZERO. 

There is not one book, not one piece of writing on paper (other than the Quran of course)  in any museum or in any one's collection that goes back to say the 7th century Arabia. 

The University of Birmingham has carbon dated a very old Quran manuscript that goes back to the 7th century AD.  

There is also a Quran inscription CARVED IN STONE on the Dome of the Rock Mosque in Jerusalem that goes back to that same period.  So the Quran does have a proven documentary record that goes back to the 7th century.


Other than  this we have largely 9th and 10th century writings which go like this,

'We believe that 200 years or so ago in the late 7th century AD, Ibn I. wrote a book about the life of Mr XYZ. We dont have a copy of this book anymore but people say that this book spoke about the life of Mr XYZ in detail. People say that Ibn I.'s book said that Mr XYZ did this and this, did that and that, etc etc'

Then after some time, other writers got tired of writing so much. They simplified their writing and just said, 'according to Ibn I. Mr XYZ said the following about this and that'.

More time passed and they became more tired and simplified it even more. They just said, 'Mr XYZ said this and that'.

So after the passage of time, grandfather hearsay stories with absolutely no historical evidence simply became fact.

Secondly, when Prof Khoo Kay Kim says that there is no historical evidence for a Hang Tuah or a Hang Li Po no one gets angry with Khoo Kay Kim. 

No one  sentences him to 3 years jail, RM5000 fine or six strokes of the rotan. 

There is no sentence of death either. 

No one calls Prof Khoo Kay Kim a pengikut ajaran sesat. 

Stupidly, the same is not true for those who question 9th and 10th century Arabian grandfather stories which have ABSOLUTELY 100% NO EVIDENCE to back them up. 

Some people will get very angry and start calling you names. 

Then they will get more angry and become violent towards you.

Either mob violence, village violence or the state sanctioned violence like 3,5,6 (three years jail, RM5000 fine and 6 strokes of the rotan).

Akhir kalam : That is why Prof Khoo Kay Kim is so clever and a world renowned professor of history.  He follows the scientific and hence Islamic method.

Whereas those people who follow the 9th and 10th century Arabian grandfather strories method are so dumb, dumb and dumb.