Anwar 'cautiously confident' of being named PM candidate

EXCLUSIVE | Since his appointment as deputy prime minister in 1993, Anwar Ibrahim has been billed as the nation's future leader.

When Pakatan Harapan won the last general election, it appeared that Anwar would become prime minister when Dr Mahathir Mohamad, who fired him as his number two in 1998, passes the reins to him after his second tenure in the top post.

However, throughout Harapan's 22-month stint in power, there were persistent doubts if the transition would take place but a political coup in February ensured that it would not materialise.

Even now as Harapan Plus – which includes Bersatu lawmakers aligned to Mahathir and Warisan – is poised to launch a counter-coup, the burning question is if Mahathir or Anwar would be named as the prime minister candidate.

In an exclusive interview with Malaysiakini at his office in Petaling Jaya yesterday, Anwar said discussions on the matter are still ongoing.

He conceded that some Harapan lawmakers have pragmatic views and want Mahathir to be the premier candidate in order to secure the numbers needed to gain a majority in Parliament.

"They have a quite legitimate argument.

“These last few days I have been meeting with MPs from DAP, Amanah, and PKR, who are saying, 'Look we agree with you, policies and principles are paramount. But please be realistic, this is realpolitik.'

"And we can't, therefore, ignore this," he said.

Mahathir currently has four other Bersatu MPs on his side and Warisan also appears to be more closely aligned to the nonagenarian than with Harapan.

Positioning Mahathir for his third return to power could prove pivotal in securing the support of other Bersatu MPs or even GPS if Harapan Plus is to form a stable government.

Despite this, Anwar said the parties have given him full support as the opposition leader.

'I have no personal issues with Mahathir'

Asked if he was confident of being named as the prime minister candidate, the PKR president replied, after a brief pause, "cautiously so".

However, Anwar believes that securing numbers must not come at the expense of ideals.

"When you talk about the numbers, you relegate the issue of agenda. And you have to deal with past strengths and flaws of the Harapan administration, and I don't think we can afford to (ignore) that.

"So to me it is paramount. If I want to be associated with this change, I will not compromise," he stressed.

Anwar added that he owed it to Harapan supporters that if the coalition retakes Putrajaya, it would implement good governance and cleanse the nation of excesses and corruption.

This stance on principles also appeared to be the dividing line between Anwar and Mahathir.

"I have no personal issues with Mahathir, the issue has always been policy issues. We were very cordial (during the Harapan Plus meeting on Tuesday)," he said in response to a question on their relationship.

Mahathir also said he had no issues with Anwar at a press conference last week. But in March, he had remarked that Malays cannot accept the latter's leadership because of his liberal political ideology.

The relationship between Mahathir and Anwar had been a defining aspect of Malaysian politics for over two decades.

Despite becoming allies to face the 2018 general election, there was still lingering animosity between them with regard to the transition of power issue.

Anwar said he tried to contain his supporters who pushed for Mahathir's resignation as best he could but pointed out they had a right to question the latter due to the ambiguity surrounding the transition.

However, the PKR president denied he was obsessed with becoming the prime minister.

He cited a leaked recording of Pakatan Harapan's meeting on Feb 21, during which he conceded to let Mahathir remain as prime minister and decide when he would resign himself.

"Is that a reflection of someone who is hasty or impatient? No.

"I was very pleased with that audio recording because it dispelled all this propaganda played by some of our people and our political enemies that suggested (I was impatient to become PM)," he said.

Going forward, there has been speculation that Anwar would strike a compromise with Mahathir by offering the latter's son, Mukhriz, the deputy prime minister position.

Quizzed on this, the opposition leader replied: "People give all sorts of suggestions and we must give it due consideration.”

"But finally it is an issue of the level of support one has and competence," he added.

Below are excerpts from the interview, which have been edited for language and brevity:

Malaysiakini: If you eventually do become prime minister, there is this problem that many youths today are not familiar with you or the reformasi struggle, compared to Mahathir. How would you explain to these young voters, who is Anwar Ibrahim, what do you believe in and what changes can we expect if you become prime minister?

Anwar: First we need to engage with them, no question about it. Because of the mainstream blanket on media stories except about me going to jail or the sodomy cases. So I think, we have organisations like Mahasiswa Keadilan, Anwar Ibrahim Club, to try and penetrate younger elements.

They have a right to know, 'what is this guy talking about, what policies can we expect, what change can we expect.' So I am talking about good governance, anti-corruption and new multiracial (approach).

This is where I think we have an edge, because the younger elements are less racial in that sense, compared to the elderly groups. Of course, mainly in urban areas, but also in rural areas. For example, Permatang Pauh, Port Dickson that I am familiar with, the young are not as hard in terms of Malay survival or supremacist thinking

Now with the George Floyd incident, hopefully, people get a better understanding of what racism is all about.

The younger leaders should go down and start talking about fundamental policies, economic (policies). (Explain) why we talk about economic change, why we talk about good governance, policy issues.

Malaysiakini: There are also youths who feel that the time of Anwar and Mahathir is over, and that it is time for younger people to take charge, and that the next PM should be a fresh face, not someone who has been trying to become PM for 20 years.

Anwar: I don’t think we should discount that. This is a democracy.

People have asked me, you know, why don't you try and prop up (his daughter) Nurul Izzah. Which I think is a bit of an odd question. I am not the feudal chief of Penang to designate my daughter as the heir apparent.

But what we did in PKR is make sure we have enough young leaders given places. As a party, in the past, we had Izzah, Rafizi Ramli, Chang Lih Kang, Lee Chean Chung. The younger leaders we are promoting (include) Nik Nazmi, Fahmi Fadzil. They are given key positions, strategic communications chief, information chief, treasurer.

In fact, that was part of the problem I faced with the 'cartel' (the term ascribed to former PKR deputy president Azmin Ali's faction) group. Because they think - 'Who are they? They are budak-budak (kids)'. Remember when this lady minister was condemning younger leaders?

There was also resentment because they think they deserve to be given key positions in the party (instead). But I thought if we continue to do that, we will not serve the interest of the party and the struggle.

To always have these second liners, that is the best I can do, then probably the MPs and people will have to decide.

Malaysiakini: Do you have a policy or programme in mind for how to address unemployment among youths?

Anwar: Number one still training, (improving) level of competency, digital technology know-how, and massive support for the startups. - Mkini