YOURSAY 'Nazrin sounds like the civil society is asking too much for justice. But is asking too much for justice uncivil? What is there to give for righting the wrong?'
Raja Nazrin: Civil society becoming uncivil
Kingfisher: Raja Muda of Perak Raja Nazrin Shah's erudite lecture is much appreciated for the concern he demonstrates for the well-being of the nation.
Perhaps he should be alerted, considering his relative youth to some of us who are twice his age, that Malaysians have exercised commendable civil obedience for the last half a century since Independence.
The consequence, by and large, is that conditions for the discontentment of the general population has become widespread and people are now aware that they are discontented and are aware also of the reasons for their discontentment.
The diffusion of information in the last decade has exposed the lamentable flaws in governance and the spontaneous expression of dissent against bad governance is an attempt by well-meaning ‘nationalists' to persuade the wrongdoers to a path of righteousness.
Obviously, there are a few bad elements in the fringe who want to exploit and create confusion and trouble, but the majority of dissenters are well-meaning ordinary citizens.
Anonymous #36465711: "Civil society is rapidly becoming uncivil, and the spirit of give and take is being replaced with the spirit of take and take" sounds like the civil society is asking too much for justice.
Is asking too much for justice uncivil? What is there to give for righting the wrong?
Pemerhati: Most of the royalty in Malaysia are beholden to BN because they have done something wrong and could be punished by the authorities or they want some favours or negotiated contracts and make some easy millions.
We know of a sultan who lost several millions at a casino overseas and was bailed out by the BN government.
We also have read of the problems of a hospital contract given to the close relation of the sultan of another state. This sultan now makes statements which are somewhat critical of Pakatan Rakyat and are designed to make PM Najib Razak happy.
Now Nazrin seems to be going all out to endear himself to Najib. It could be because he is eyeing some very big negotiated contracts for Gamuda, in which his family has a big stake, and hoping for Najib's help in ensuring the normal succession plan is not followed and thus he becomes the next sultan.
Het: If the civil society has indeed become uncivil, it was probably due to the failure of the other institutions such as the government, the judiciary, the police, the MACC (Malaysian Anti-Corruption Commission) and others that should act and be seen to act neutrally.
Tan Kim Keong: Raja Nazrin is absolutely right when he said, "Ordinary citizens must not be swayed by false promises and character assassinations," and called for Malaysians to be discerning in politics, and not to be affected by half-truths.
He asking us to get rid of Umno and its cohorts in BN for all the double speak, character assassinations and lies perpetuated by them. Thank you, Raja Nazrin, for the insight.
Anonymous #18452573: Raja Nazrin, many years ago, we saw you as the ray of hope within the royalty.
While many may not see a reason for the concept of royalty in this modern day and age where civil governments and societies treat all citizens as equals and not by their birthright, we Malaysians have stood by the concept of the constitutional monarchy and the symbolism of our Malay traditions.
But when you question the very citizens who are still trying to stand by you, you are changing their minds.
When a leader does not criticise corruption, cronyism, nepotism and racism, but instead goes after the common man's fight for equal, fair and clean elections, then we have the right to question and doubt the leaders' motives.
Swipenter: I did not hear Nazrin saying who, how and why we have become a polarised society. Instead, I heard him loud and clear that "civil society is rapidly becoming uncivil, and the spirit of give and take is being replaced by the spirit of take and take."
Well, the spirit of give and take has been long replaced with the spirit of take and take since the 1980s by Umno. Anyone having a different perspective from Umno is "uncivil" even though their aims are universal and noble.
What is so uncivil about seeking the ideals of freedom, fairness and justice?
The privileged and elitist class always talk of freedom with responsibility or within limits. What are they really saying?
As long as you don't challenge them or rock their status quo, then you are practising the spirit of give and take and spirit of moderation. Otherwise, you are up to no good.
Compass: Does give and take mean allow Umno to commit corruption and cronyism in return for them agreeing to use indelible ink during national elections?
P Dev Anand Pillai: Dear Raja Nazrin, you are supposed to be a scholar and a PhD holder. If society is pushed to the edge, what do you expect them to do?
If you talk about give and take, what happens if there is nothing but taking, which has been happening for the past 55 years, and not much of giving?
How is there so many Indians born and bred here and not having set foot out of this country still being denied a right to citizenship but are only courted for votes every five years once?
If this is still happening after 55 years of Independence, what would you expect civil society groups to do? Just accept it?
It would have been better if you had said that we have to chart a new course towards equality for all Malaysians and right the wrongs which have been allowed to fester all this while.
Abasir: Half-truths, Nazrin? Let's see now:
1. Altantuya Shaariibuu was murdered by two fellows from Najib's security detail and no one in the police and judiciary questioned their motive. Have you heard of 'mens rea' Nazrin? Maybe you should ask around the palace but then again, you may not get an answer.
2. Shahrizat Abdul Jalil's husband gets a juicy RM250 million contract despite not having done anything even remotely connected to animal farming. And no connection between her position in Umno and government and the contract?
3. The wholesale registration of foreigners in the electoral rolls and not a whiff of treason? Do you care to reveal the full truth which you obviously know? We are waiting.
Slumdog: Unless I am deaf and blind, I don't ever recall hearing or reading that you or other members of the Malaysian monarchy speaking out against the massive corruption, lies and other despicable actions perpetrated by government ministers, their cronies and heads of government departments.
Joker: The government and the royalty have been too used to a compliant and ignorant populace. To them, blind loyalty and subservient to the authorities are the status quo and the 'centre' position.
When the populace no longer wants to be treated as fools and sheep, we began to rise up and assert for what rightfully belong to us, such as freedom of expression, freedom to assemble, freedom to access information and to have free and fair elections.
The ruling parties are so used to having awe-struck populace that this moderate demand by the populace are seen as militant and uncivil. The concept of take-and-take have actually been practiced by the ruling coalition and their cronies.
Raja Nazrin: Civil society becoming uncivil
Kingfisher: Raja Muda of Perak Raja Nazrin Shah's erudite lecture is much appreciated for the concern he demonstrates for the well-being of the nation.Perhaps he should be alerted, considering his relative youth to some of us who are twice his age, that Malaysians have exercised commendable civil obedience for the last half a century since Independence.
The consequence, by and large, is that conditions for the discontentment of the general population has become widespread and people are now aware that they are discontented and are aware also of the reasons for their discontentment.
The diffusion of information in the last decade has exposed the lamentable flaws in governance and the spontaneous expression of dissent against bad governance is an attempt by well-meaning ‘nationalists' to persuade the wrongdoers to a path of righteousness.
Obviously, there are a few bad elements in the fringe who want to exploit and create confusion and trouble, but the majority of dissenters are well-meaning ordinary citizens.
Anonymous #36465711: "Civil society is rapidly becoming uncivil, and the spirit of give and take is being replaced with the spirit of take and take" sounds like the civil society is asking too much for justice.
Is asking too much for justice uncivil? What is there to give for righting the wrong?
Pemerhati: Most of the royalty in Malaysia are beholden to BN because they have done something wrong and could be punished by the authorities or they want some favours or negotiated contracts and make some easy millions.
We know of a sultan who lost several millions at a casino overseas and was bailed out by the BN government.
We also have read of the problems of a hospital contract given to the close relation of the sultan of another state. This sultan now makes statements which are somewhat critical of Pakatan Rakyat and are designed to make PM Najib Razak happy.
Now Nazrin seems to be going all out to endear himself to Najib. It could be because he is eyeing some very big negotiated contracts for Gamuda, in which his family has a big stake, and hoping for Najib's help in ensuring the normal succession plan is not followed and thus he becomes the next sultan.
Het: If the civil society has indeed become uncivil, it was probably due to the failure of the other institutions such as the government, the judiciary, the police, the MACC (Malaysian Anti-Corruption Commission) and others that should act and be seen to act neutrally.
Tan Kim Keong: Raja Nazrin is absolutely right when he said, "Ordinary citizens must not be swayed by false promises and character assassinations," and called for Malaysians to be discerning in politics, and not to be affected by half-truths.
He asking us to get rid of Umno and its cohorts in BN for all the double speak, character assassinations and lies perpetuated by them. Thank you, Raja Nazrin, for the insight.
Anonymous #18452573: Raja Nazrin, many years ago, we saw you as the ray of hope within the royalty.
While many may not see a reason for the concept of royalty in this modern day and age where civil governments and societies treat all citizens as equals and not by their birthright, we Malaysians have stood by the concept of the constitutional monarchy and the symbolism of our Malay traditions.
But when you question the very citizens who are still trying to stand by you, you are changing their minds.
When a leader does not criticise corruption, cronyism, nepotism and racism, but instead goes after the common man's fight for equal, fair and clean elections, then we have the right to question and doubt the leaders' motives.
Swipenter: I did not hear Nazrin saying who, how and why we have become a polarised society. Instead, I heard him loud and clear that "civil society is rapidly becoming uncivil, and the spirit of give and take is being replaced by the spirit of take and take."
Well, the spirit of give and take has been long replaced with the spirit of take and take since the 1980s by Umno. Anyone having a different perspective from Umno is "uncivil" even though their aims are universal and noble.
What is so uncivil about seeking the ideals of freedom, fairness and justice?
The privileged and elitist class always talk of freedom with responsibility or within limits. What are they really saying?
As long as you don't challenge them or rock their status quo, then you are practising the spirit of give and take and spirit of moderation. Otherwise, you are up to no good.
Compass: Does give and take mean allow Umno to commit corruption and cronyism in return for them agreeing to use indelible ink during national elections?
P Dev Anand Pillai: Dear Raja Nazrin, you are supposed to be a scholar and a PhD holder. If society is pushed to the edge, what do you expect them to do?
If you talk about give and take, what happens if there is nothing but taking, which has been happening for the past 55 years, and not much of giving?
How is there so many Indians born and bred here and not having set foot out of this country still being denied a right to citizenship but are only courted for votes every five years once?
If this is still happening after 55 years of Independence, what would you expect civil society groups to do? Just accept it?
It would have been better if you had said that we have to chart a new course towards equality for all Malaysians and right the wrongs which have been allowed to fester all this while.
Abasir: Half-truths, Nazrin? Let's see now:
1. Altantuya Shaariibuu was murdered by two fellows from Najib's security detail and no one in the police and judiciary questioned their motive. Have you heard of 'mens rea' Nazrin? Maybe you should ask around the palace but then again, you may not get an answer.
2. Shahrizat Abdul Jalil's husband gets a juicy RM250 million contract despite not having done anything even remotely connected to animal farming. And no connection between her position in Umno and government and the contract?
3. The wholesale registration of foreigners in the electoral rolls and not a whiff of treason? Do you care to reveal the full truth which you obviously know? We are waiting.
Slumdog: Unless I am deaf and blind, I don't ever recall hearing or reading that you or other members of the Malaysian monarchy speaking out against the massive corruption, lies and other despicable actions perpetrated by government ministers, their cronies and heads of government departments.
Joker: The government and the royalty have been too used to a compliant and ignorant populace. To them, blind loyalty and subservient to the authorities are the status quo and the 'centre' position.
When the populace no longer wants to be treated as fools and sheep, we began to rise up and assert for what rightfully belong to us, such as freedom of expression, freedom to assemble, freedom to access information and to have free and fair elections.
The ruling parties are so used to having awe-struck populace that this moderate demand by the populace are seen as militant and uncivil. The concept of take-and-take have actually been practiced by the ruling coalition and their cronies.
For what has the populace taken? We have only taken a step forward to demand what should have been ours anyway.
The royals are already in a privileged state, they must be aware that theirs is not the 'middle ground' or status quo and the people, who worked hard to eke out a living, are not beholden to the government.
Cantabrigian: Malaysians to exercise "moderation"? Yes, bidding RM520,000 for a piece of plastic with WWW1 written on it is indeed moderation, right? - Malaysiakini
Cantabrigian: Malaysians to exercise "moderation"? Yes, bidding RM520,000 for a piece of plastic with WWW1 written on it is indeed moderation, right? - Malaysiakini
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